Hello! My name is Debra (formerly known as Legal Ease). Thank you for your question. I'm reviewing it now, and will post back again shortly.
I am sorry to hear of this difficult situation.
Did both the parents appoint this same son to act for each of the when they become mentally incompetent?
Are they mentally incompetent now?
same son appointed by both parents
Father mentally incompetent
Is the mother mentally competent?
Just as mother was recovering from a serious illness a year ago she was assessed as incompetent. Now that she is fully recovered she is very competent but is still under the old assessment.
Is she making it clear this is not what she wants?
Absolutely loud and clear.
They were put in the home this Wednesday. She keeps repeating I want to go home. We do not want to stay here. Why are you all doing this to us.
The mother can appoint another child or two under a new POA. She is competent and has this legal right.
At the same time she can revoke her other POA.
If there is opposition from the brother, the home etc then the mother can undergo another assessment and then if that doesn't work one or more of the sisters can apply to the court for an order declaring both parents to be incompetent and appointing the sister(s) as the parents legal guardian(s). That will void all POAs and the legal guardian(s) will then make all decisions about both parents until they die.
The sister(s) should retain a lawyer at once.
What you can do to find a lawyer is one of the following things.
You can contact the Law Society and use their Lawyer Referral Service. You will be given the name of a lawyer and can consult with the lawyer and the first half hour will be free.
The number is:
1-***-***-**** or(###) ###-####(within the GTA)
Or you can check on a site called lexpert. This is a legal directory of leading lawyers and law firms throughout Canada and is well-respected by the legal community.
Here's the link to their website:
Does that help as a starting point?
Please feel free to post back with any follow-up questions you may have. If you don't have any then I hope I have earned a 5 star rating but if you don't feel that I have please don't hesitate to reply back and let me know what more I can do to assist you. Finally, please know that even after you rate me I will be here for you and you can ask follow-up questions if you think of them later on at no further charge of course.
I will put a 5 star rating. I will have to pass on your info to the siblings. How can I be sure to get you back if I have further questions?
The next time you post just say "This is only for Debra" and then I will be the one to answer. If another lawyer answers just opt them out. This was one of my areas of specialty when I was still practicing. I am retired now.
Thanks and take good care.
Also, if the mother is still under the old assessment of incompetent, how does one go about getting her reassessed in order for her to revoke the present POA and appoint the others?
You try and arrange it when you visit her and hope no one stops you or you try and take her out for a visit and take her for the assessment and if you cannot then you have a lawyer get a court order.
Hi Debra, there was a bit of a delay in getting family feedback as there are 6 adult children involved. These are the immediate questions 4 of the family members would like to have clarity on.Other than the POA, no one else has actually seen or read the POA document. To date, when asked by his siblings, he has refused to show it.On what grounds would it be appropriate to go to their parents lawyer and ask for a copy. Is this their ‘right’ to know? Or is there a legal ‘registry’ somewhere accessible to the public that they can check?The suspicion of the family is that he, the eldest son, was first given a general POA which probably had a clause for it to be upgraded to an enduring or continuing POA once the parents were certified as mentally incompetent. Last year he had them certified. The siblings at the time found it odd that the mother was also certified. Some did state their disagreement then but, not being fully aware of the implications, did not pursue it.At that time the father’s alzheimer’s was in evidence and progressing rapidly. He was easily certifiable. The mother however, at the time of the assessment, was recovering from a serious illness. Now, one year on, she is definitely, clearly not fully mentally incompetent and operates daily with real clarity of mind especially concerning her personal care, health and daily well being and that of her husband. Many years now they have been receiving well organized care at their home managed by one of their daughters.With the recent shift to the care facility (2/9/20)the mom has been very vocal to whomever would listen and has repeatedly told the POA son, that she wants to go home and her husband with her too. They do not want to be placed in any care facility and have always clearly said so. They want to be cared for at their home until it’s time to go to their eternal home. They have adequately provided for this and 1 daughter is completely committed to their care, and now with some necessary added support. This level of care has been fully given in the comfort of their own home, until this move was forced upon them to a care facility. The POA refuses to accede to his parents requests and against the pleading of the rest of his siblings to honour their parents wishes.How does one go about getting the mom reassessed? Very importantly, where (address, etc) and to whom can one go to have this legally and validly done? Because of Covid there are restrictions as to visitors and to even their, the donors, leaving the care facility for any reason. Can the reassessment perhaps be done legally and validly through the actual care facility itself? To date the parents are being closely monitored 24/7 by the admin. The parents have currently been placed together in ‘assisted living’ accommodation, we were told at least for this first month. They were placed there on 2nd September. The family were told there is to be no visitation by any of them for the first 2 weeks as part of the Covid protocol.Since the other kids are seeking reassessment for their mom, they also want to know if it is, that the existing POA was signed by both parents together, initially both appointing the same son, whether having their mom recertified as mentally competent, can she then do the needful for them both? For instance, if she wishes to either revoke and/or appoint other members of the family with official POA status can she take such action on behalf of, and for, both her husband and herself? Or having the enduring POA will the son still hold complete authority over the father as no favorable reassessment is now possible for him?The final question has to do with an attempt being made to sell the family home. How does one go about getting an injunction against the POA for attempting to clandestinely put the house on the market for sale?Unfortunately, other than the POA, the siblings are not people of means. They wish to be advised as to the least expensive way to effectively go about doing all that is required as per your advice? Also, what should they have in hand to prove that this seemingly intended house sale that has now come to their attention?Look forward to soon hearing from you on each of these very serious questions.The family asked that if possible, if they can please have each of the responses formulated in point form.There are 2 reasons for this request. First, not being persons of means, they would need a level of clarity regarding anything they can undertake and would personally do for themselves. Secondly, they mentioned that by you putting everything in point form or in steps, they will find your legal guidance alot easier to understand and follow in order to do all that would need to be done under these trying circumstances especially without the direct knowledge of the POA who they normally depend upon to handle everything in matters such as these.The family’s address is in Oshawa,
The parents' lawyer cannot help. The lawyer is bound by solicitor client privilege and so cannot answer if the brother does hat the POA and isn't instructing the lawyer to do so But the lawyer may agree to simply say whether they know of the existence of a POA or not.
If you cannot get the mother reassessed on your own you get a court order.
She can only act for herself.
So really she needs a lawyer and you could use the same lawyer as you are all aligned.
Please advise where would one go to make arrangements to have someone legally reassessed as in this situation for mental competency?
OK thanks. We know he has a POA signed by the parents. We thought it would be helpful to know what is actually agreed to in the document and the extent or limits of his ‘power.’ Does he really have the power to do what he is currently doing which is against his parents clearly expressed will and to which his mom is at present objecting strongly?
How can we find out this information?
If he won't reveal it then you have to get a court order. But he might reveal it if a lawyer threatens a lawsuit.
Got it. Thank you.
Not seeing the ‘stars’ option to be able to rate you♀️
That's because you can only rate me once per post and you already rated me.
Hi Debra,Thank you for all your legal guidance to date and contact info to pursue reassessment for the mother. Being in the ‘home’ under Covid restrictions the siblings would have to wait a bit before going forward on this.However they’re requesting more specific answers to the following that they may be able to work on in the meantime.Reviewing your responses in light of this family’s unfortunate situation rather than making an empty threat they’re asking to please expand on your thought as to the specific legal grounds that you see for a possible lawsuit against the POA brother?What legal right do they have and should be pursuing as the other children of the family observing the suffering the parents are being made to unnecessarily endure?Secondly, because this is such unfamiliar territory for these siblings and time is obviously of the essence they would greatly appreciate if you would please recommend not a whole bunch which makes them feel lost and confused, but rather 1 or 2 or even 3 specific lawyers (in the Oshawa or nearby area) known for their expertise and success in handling this particular field of law i.e. of POA’s who act unreasonably contrary and uncaring to parents clearly known wishes and desires?Looking forward to your responses.With thanks andBest regards,
Would you please start a new post for all of these new questions? At the beginning of a post you can say "Debra" and then I will be the one to answer.
Thank you again for trusting us to help you here at JustAnswer. If you have any follow-up questions, or need clarity on anything we went over today, please feel free to let me know-I am happy to help!
Did send a new email for Debra around 8 pm but have had no reply to my questions as yet. Has it been received? And is Debra available?
I am available but there's no other question on this account. Can you start a new question now and I'll look for it please?
Hi Debra,Thank you for all your legal guidance to date and contact info to pursue reassessment for the mother. Being in the ‘home’ under Covid restrictions the siblings would have to wait a bit before going forward on this.However they’re requesting more specific answers to the following that they may be able to work on in the meantime.Reviewing your responses in light of this family’s unfortunate situation rather than making an empty threat they’re asking to please expand on your thought as to the specific legal grounds that you see for a possible lawsuit against the POA brother?What legal right do they have and should be pursuing as the other children of the family observing the suffering the parents are being made to unnecessarily endure?Secondly, because this is such unfamiliar territory for these siblings and time is obviously of the essence they would greatly appreciate if you would please recommend not a whole bunch which makes them feel lost and confused, but rather 1 or 2 or even 3 specific lawyers (in the Oshawa or nearby area) who are known for their expertise and success in handling this particular field of law i.e. of POA’s who act unreasonably contrary and uncaring to parents known wishes and desires?Looking forward to your responses.With thanks and
This is still on the same post and I cannot answer it here.
Please direct me. How do I put it on another post?