Follow Up] [Follow Up] (Second Opinion do not close - For Canadian Lawyer/Expert) Me and my ex girlfriend had a child

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Customer: (Second Opinion do not close - For Canadian Lawyer/Expert) Customer: Me and my ex girlfriend had a child yesterday and she is not ready to nurture the child with me. She is forcing me to give the child in adoption which i don't want. I want to know what my rights are how can i get the child and also as me and my ex girlfriend are indians so i want my child to grow in India With my parents and me. So i need to know how can i take my child back to india JA: Who currently has legal custody? Customer: He is born yesterday. She has just started the process of adoption and i don't think that anybody has a legal custody yet JA: Is there a child custody order in place? Customer: No JA: Anything else you want the Lawyer to know before I connect you? Customer: No. Just that she wants the baby to go for adoption and me and my family wants the baby to get back to india and we want to raise my child thereDetail Required: HIGH
Expert: Hello, thank you for the question.What province are you in? Is your name listed as the father on the birth registration documents? Have you been at the hospital?
Customer: I am in nova scotia and my child is in new brunswick and no i have not been to the hospital yet because of this corona outbreak. And i have no idea about the birth certificate.
Expert: But you have been in touch with the mother since the birth, and she's still talking about adoption? If so, has she done so in writing?
Customer: Yes we are still in touch and yes she is still talking about adoption and i have started the process because of her but i have only filled my personal detail form and medical history form with the social service adoption agency.
Customer: ?????
Expert: I'm here. This is set up like a chat, but I'm not a site employee in a cubicle. I'm a lawyer at home on a Sunday, and I'm up and down from my computer. So if I don't reply right away please be patient.Well, it's clear to me that if you don't want the child to be adopted out you will not finish filling in the paperwork, correct? And you'll ask her if your name is ***** ***** birth registration documents too. You should try to get a copy of that. Normally I'd recommend that you go to the hospital to get a copy of the document, but it's possible that they won't let you in unless it's an emergency these days, so if you can go then call the maternity ward there and say you're the father of that baby and you want to come get a copy of the birth registration if that's possible. Then call the social services adoption agency and say that you oppose an adoption at this point, so if the mother tries to push it through herself, you want it noted in the file that you object and you want to be notified if she does try.Then you talk to her about you taking custody of the baby and going India, see if she'll agree to that. I'm not sure why she wouldn't but if she has reasons you want to discuss with me please let me know.At some point you'll want her to sign something giving you custody of the child, or else you'll have to take her to court for custody. Having it in writing from her that she doesn't want the child herself will be good evidence for you in court, if you need it. Does that help? I'm here if you have further question or comment. If I've answered you then may I please have a positive service rating? Ratings are how I'm paid by the site for helping its customers. I'd appreciate it.
Customer: But my ex is not ready to give the custody of child to me and also she is not ready for me to take the child back to india. She only wants the child to go for adoption and she has clearly stated me that either the child will go for adoption or i'll take you to court.
But me and my family wants that we ourself raise the child in India.
Can you also help me with the process and all the legalities that i have to face during this entire process and how can i take my child back to India.
Customer: Is this possibleb?
Expert: Yes, you should get a lawyer to do this for you or you go to court and prepare an Application for custody of the child. That paperwork you should be able to do yourself with the help of the duty lawyers at court. Then you have to serve the mother and there will be a court date. But still try to get a copy of the birth registration, and contact social services adoption department too about it. They won't help you with your court Application but you should let them know what's going on.Anything else to discuss?
Customer: Ok
As i am an international student currently pursuing my masters here. So she keeps on saying that i am not financially stable and when i talked to social service they also asked me how are you going to manage your finances. My parents are supporting me here but yes i am searching for a job too. I am financially stable in India as both my parents are in government services and i too used to work in India.
So will this affect my case here ?
Expert: I think that the mother would need a lot more than that to convince a judge that it's better for a child to be adopted than in the custody of a parent. Don't worry too much about that. If you feel strongly about this, then you have to pursue a custody order. It will help you in court to have a good "plan of care", what resources you'll use, what your income will be, etc. for when you get the child in your care. Does that help?
Customer: Where can i get this plan of care or i mean i have no idea about it as what it is. Also i don't have a job so how can i show my income source ?
Expert: The plan of care is just that, your plan to care for the child. It can be in the form of an affidavit or sworn statement. As for income, say what you get from your family. You'll also get child tax benefit from the government. It doesn't have to be perfect. There are plenty of single parents around, right? Also say that you will apply for social services benefits if you need to. Anything else?
Customer: how much will the court procedure gonna cost me ?
Expert: At the provincial level, it's free. If there's a filing fee for the paperwork that you can't afford, you can apply for a waiver and swear that you're a student and you're broke, and you won't have to pay even those fees. Anything else? You can come back here and discuss this topic further any time. I'll still be here. But in the meantime, can I have that service rating please? I like to be paid by the site.
Expert: Thanks for that. You can still come to me when there's more to talk about on this subject, but I can't do it for you. If your nearest courthouse is still open, you could go there tomorrow and ask for the papers you'll need to apply for custody, and see a family duty lawyer at court too if they are available.
Customer: thankyou so much and i have done the rating as you asked me for.
as my child is in another province where my ex is. i want to know where will the case be filed ?
Expert: The case should be filed where the child lives, but it's possible that you could apply for custody where you live if you can convince a judge that this would be best. You'll need to speak to a lawyer there in person about it. While at court, you should apply for a Legal Aid certificate so that if you have to hire a lawyer in another province it might be paid for you.
Customer: do i have to take an appointment in court first ? I live in Sydney Nova Scotia and i have a court here in downtown. Can i visit there tomorrow directly?
Expert: If the case has to be brought where the child lives, and it's very likely that will be the case, you'll need to find a place to stay there while you visit to do paperwork and attend court. No one is saying you have to move, but you have to be able to get to court and it would help to be able to stay there for short periods. You don't need an appointment to go to court, but access might be limited these days due to CoVid. Look here for information about family court in Nova Scotia:https://www.courts.ns.ca/Family_Court/NSFC_home.htmhttps://www.nsfamilylaw.ca/The situation is changing daily with CoVid, so I think you could call the court house in the morning to see if they are even open to the public to talk to a family duty lawyer and to apply for Legal Aid for an out of province urgent matter.
Customer: currently the border of nova scotia is closed for moving out of province, so how can i manage that ?
Expert: The Nova Scotia border is closed? To everyone? I wasn't aware of that.It's Sunday afternoon, you can't do anything about it now anyway. Call your court house tomorrow, see if they are open and if the are, whether Legal Aid is open and if there's a duty lawyer to give you some more in person advice.
Customer: ok thankyou so much. Can i contact you for more advice tomorrow after doing all the procedures you have told me to do ?
Expert: I'll be around. But the further you are into it, I might not know much about the particulars of how court works there. I'm in Ontario. If you have signed up for a subscription on this site, that will help you. You'll get several questions per month for a monthly fee, which gives you greater access to the experts here.
Customer: no i have not taken any monthly subscription yet but i'll see if i need that i'll take it tomorrow.
Expert: OK, good luck tomorrow. I'll check in with you next week as well.
Expert: Also, I'll check back in with you in 3 days on 4/1/2020. I can also answer any additional questions that may arise. Don't worry, there's no additional fee for this follow-up.
Customer: Thankyou
Expert: You're welcome, try not to worry. And take care of yourself.
Customer: I talked to her about the birth certificate and she said that i have to take a DNA test first ..then i asked her about the hospital details so she started fighting and didn't gave me any detail and blocked me. What should i do now ?
Expert: You'll need a court order for a DNA test then, so ask for that in your Application.
Expert: It's possible that it's not your child. It's also possible that she's telling you she's going to give it away so that you leave her alone to do what she wants with the child, that she doesn't want you in the life of her or of the child. I've seen that happen too.
Customer: if so then why is she forcing me to do the adoption formalities ?
Expert: Right, I had forgotten about that. Perhaps she's just testing you, I don't know. I've never met her. But I find it strange she'd rather give it away than let you raise the baby with your family.
Customer: ok so should i talk to her or not? because before me asking her about the birth certificate and hospital details she was talking to me in hindi and now she has blocked me from whatsapp and have started talking to me in english over normal texts on phone. I want to know that if all this she is doing just to give her lawyer proofs that i was not aware of the basic details and if this entire conversation can be used against me in court?
Expert: Yes, she's likely now trying to create evidence for court, if necessary. Just don't threaten her or get aggressive and you'll be fine.
Expert: You can certainly ask her if she'll co-operate with a DNA test.
Customer: i have not threaten her i just said that now my baby is not going anywhere and she just started all of this. She has stated in her text that i am threatening her and she knew that this was going to happen and she has already planed everything with her lawyer. but i have not threatened her in any way i do have all the chats with me.
Customer: i received a mail from the adoption service today stating
"Could you explain me what you mean by you and your family are ready to raise the kid?
Like I previously explained to you over the phone, if you decide not to proceed with the adoption and want to parent the baby, you would need to be evaluate to make sure that you can parent the baby by yourself before even considering the option of bringing the baby to another country."Can you help me reply her in a legal way so that she can not use my replies to frame me in this case?
Expert: Just reply to her that you're still in conversation with the mother, and it may be that it has to go to family court. But regardless, you are not consenting to any adoption at this point. If they want to assist in arranging a DNA test, that would be useful and appreciated.
Customer: as i backed out of adoption process the social worker has given the mother the option which is " would be to serve both of you a notice of protective care (PC) and take the baby in foster care for 5 business days so that you both have time to think about what you want to do. Either you parent the baby or sign the adoption papers. If Mansi decide that she doesn’t want to parent the baby by the end of the 5th day, and you still wants to do what needs to be done to care for the baby, the baby would be sent to Nova Scotia and a social worker would work with you there."
I want to know what all rights she can have if i get the baby after this process. Also i want to know after this if i get the baby can she go to court ?
As i want to go back to India with my baby, can she stop me from doing that with her rights if she has any?
Expert: If the mother "abandons" the child, then the child goes into foster care and then you work with social services to get the child back into your care. That's unusual, but certainly possible.Expert: Any developments?
Customer: Yes right now me and my family is talking to my ex and as we have to take a decision before friday ..i guess she is going to agree. She is considering my options now and i am hoping this will be over before this friday.
Expert: Calm discussion is progress too. Good luck.
Customer: Thankyou, i'll update you once a decision is taken.
Expert: I'll be here. Don't agree to anything that sounds weird, without asking me first.
Customer: she is saying that if you are getting the baby then you have to go back INDIA with the baby if you want to raise the baby in INDIA.
Expert: I see. Is that a reasonable plan? I'm not saying she has the right to insist on it, but if that's what you were going to do anyway then there's no harm to agreeing to it.
Customer: or else if you are staying here in CANADA for your studies you have to raise the baby in CANADA.
And i am a single parent also i have no job i am studying here and was thinking that i'll take my child back to INDIA and there my parents will take care of the baby until i become stable here or i complete my studies here and then go back to India to my child.
Customer: That is not a reasonable plan as, if i have no future without studies then how will i give my child a good future.
Expert: I see. I'm not surprised. She's saying that if you want the child then you have to raise the child yourself, either here or in India. You want the child to be raised in India by your family. Why not take the child to India, take a term or a year off of school (now is a good time anyway, with CoVid) then when you're in India your family there gets an order for custody/primary residence from court in India, then you come back to Canada?
Customer: i can't take a break from my studies as i have responsibilities towards my parents also. And i have to look for my future also. I have so many responsibilities and what she is asking is unreasonable. She always knew that i will be raising my kid with my family but now she is just playing dirty games.
Expert: I'm not disagreeing with you. But surely your parents would relent on their expectations of you, and forgive you taking some time away from your studies, in order to get your child to India and into their care without having to go to court? These days, I strongly suspect that your program can be continued in an online-only manner, is that a possibility? This isn't about whether she is being reasonable. We know she's not being reasonable, but that doesn't change anything. This is about you getting what you want as easily as possible.
Customer: Also she has given me an option that your parents come here and adopt the child. And that is going to cost me and my family a lot of money and i want to spend that money on my child. She is asking for unreasonable demands.
Expert: It doesn't matter if she's being unreasonable, if there's an option that gets the child into the care of yourself or your family quickly and cheaply, then you should think about doing it. What's the harm in telling her you'll take the child to India yourself, she gives that permission, your parents get custody of the child in India, and then you come back?
Customer: Can you help me get and evaluation of how much is it going to cost me if i call my parents here to adopt the child as she is saying and then they take back the child with them. including applying for my child passport and also the process of taking back the child.
Customer: if i do as what you are saying, can she file a complaint against me here in canada if i return here ?
Expert: No, I can't. But it will cost a lot and take time. It would be easier for her to simply sign something that she's giving you custody/primary residence of the child, and permission to take the child to live where plan is for the child to be raised there. Then you take the child back, you and your parents get a court order there, and you return to Canada. Adoptions take time and legal fees too in Canada. I'm trying to give you the simplest and cheapest option here. And if she wants to complain about your actions when you return, she has to do it in India where the child is normally resident, right? That's why I think it's best for you to do what it takes to get the child to India without the Canadian court's involvement. Then the Canadian Court doesn't have jurisdiction over the child. Does that make sense?
Customer: yes it is making sense then i have to get the legal advise in INDIA also as how much time it is going to take for this process back in INDIA.
Customer: also if i go with this that she is asking and sign a contract with her what all points should i keep in the contract so that she can't do anything legally about it in future.
Expert: I cannot tell you what would keep her from going to court in India.But for Canada, here's what you do:1. Get her to put your name as the father on the birth / identification documents.2. You get an original or notarized copy of those documents.3. You print out clearly for her a document which says something like this:"(mother's name) and (father's name) are the natural parents of (child's name) born on (birthdate) in (city and province of birth). The parents agree that the father make take custody of the child to take to India, where the parents intend the child to be raised. This document shall also constitute the mother's permission for the child to travel with the father to India." Each of you should sign and date it, and it would help if a witness signed and dated it too. Keep it simple and clear. 4. You take the child and get on a plane to India, where you and your parents go see a family lawyer to get an order for custody, jointly with you and your parents. Then you can return to Canada, leaving the child with your parents. That's the easiest way to do this. If mother doesn't like it, she has to go to India to see a lawyer there. She could try to bring this to court in Canada, but by then a custody order will have been made in India and I doubt that the court here would do anything about it. Does that make sense?
Customer: thanks alot it is making sense and i'll try to contact a family lawyer in india ASAP and see if this can be done within this brake time.
Expert: I hope it works out. Can you give me another rating? It won't cost you anything.
Customer: yes for sure.
Expert: Thanks. I'm still here if you want to continue the conversation.
Expert: Also, I'll check back in with you in 2 days on 4/3/2020. I can also answer any additional questions that may arise. Don't worry, there's no additional fee for this follow-up.
Customer: she agreed for not putting any conditions finally and she agreed that i'll take back my child to india and my parents will raise my child. Now i need your help in further process of how i can apply for the passport of my child and take him back to INDIA.
Expert: You will certainly need her written permission to fly with the child, so do the things I wrote earlier about getting the child's birth identity documentation, and mom's written that you have custody to go back to India. You have to check with the airline you're going to use about how old the baby has to be. I assume a couple of weeks at least. To apply for a child's passport: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-passports/children/apply.htmlTo get this done quickly, find an immigration agent or lawyer near you to help get the paperwork done quickly. When contacting them, get quotes and estimates for cost. It won't be free. Make sure that your parents can help pay for this.
Answered by ulysses101 in 5 mins 2 years ago
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ulysses101, Expert

Hi, I'm following up on our Family Law discussion from this week. Any updates or further feedback?
Customer
No update evrything is going smooth and she has agreed for everything now and also for taking back the child to india. I have talked to the indian embessy and they have told me the process and documentation so now everything is going fine.
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ulysses101, Expert

That's great! Good luck to you.

Customer
Thankyou so much
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